I believe there is a small mistake in the movie script of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban.
The error is when Professor Lupin says “Mischief managed” to the Marauder’s Map, just after saying goodbye to Harry at the end of the movie.
In the book, Harry finds Lupin packing in his office, and Lupin says, “I saw you coming,” pointing to the map. On the next page, Lupin says to Harry:
“I am no longer your teacher, so I don’t feel guilty about giving you back this as well. It’s no use to me and I daresay you, Ron and Hermione will find uses for it.”
PoA pg. 424/309
But he doesn’t work the map in Harry’s presence.
However, in the movie, at the end of this scene, Lupin points his wand at the Marauder’s Map and says, “Mischief managed.”
Very cute way to wrap up the scene. But there’s a problem. We know that Fred and George stole the map from Filch:
We let off a Dungbomb in the corridor and it upset him for some reason. So he hauled us off to his office and started threatening us with the usual, detention, disembowelment, and we couldn’t help noticing a drawer in one of his filing cabinets marked Confiscated and Highly Dangerous.” … “George caused a diversion by dropping another Dungbomb. I whipped the drawer open and grabbed this. It’s not as bad as it sounds, you know,” said George. “We don’t reckon Filch ever found out how to work it. He probably suspected what it was though, or he wouldn’t have confiscated it.” “And you know how to work it?” “Oh yes,” said Fred, smirking. “This little beauty’s taught us more than all the teachers in this school.”
PoA pg. 191/143
Fred and George had no connection with the original marauders, James, Sirius, Lupin and Peter Pettigrew. So, Fred and George would have had no way of knowing the original incantations used to operate the map.
I believe it’s only logical to assume that Fred and George must have figured out how to use the map by trial and error. However, it’s very unlikely they would have come up with the exact incantations the marauders used, instead, it’s more likely that they came up with something close to the original incantations, and the map understood their rule-breaking intentions.
Now, Lupin, being one of the original marauders, knows the “real”, original incantations that work the map. In addition, he would have no way of knowing what Fred and George’s versions of the incantations were (and hence the versions Harry uses because Fred and George told Harry), because Harry never uses the map in front of Lupin.
“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good” and “Mischief managed” are the incantations that Fred and George made up. So, it doesn’t make logical sense for Lupin to say “Mischief managed” to the map at the end of the movie!
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Lupin also says to Harry that the map makers would have wanted to draw harry into using it. I suppose the map might be sensitive to kindred spirits, and give instructions to new users. More Mac than PC… Never trust anything that thinks unless you can see where it keeps its brains.
I think the map instructs those who are new to using it. Recall Harry’s first trip to Hogsmeade and the map showing a text bubble with the correct incantation to open the humped witch statue. When Fred and George first filched the map from Filch, the map probably showed them the correct incantations, so Lupin’s use of “mischief managed” was correct as a maker of the map and to tidy up the movie scene.
Ok. I do not believe that this is an error, because Fred and George did not make up those incantations. The only incantations that work are the ones that Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot and Prongs made up. I agree with Sharon that the map probably instructed Fred and George on how to use it. I always assumed that, much like with Snape, the map wrote to F&G;, except instead of insulting them, it figured out that they wanted to make mischief as well, and so told them or gave them hints on how to work it. Thats my 2 cents.
As one of the marauders, I suppose Lupin has the right to know who used their map (by certain incantations or something). Afterwards, probably, he knew the incantations used by its former users and used the “Micschief Managed” incantation himself. Maybe he found it cute. ‘Nuff said.
Or maybe not, maybe it’s just an error on the script.
I am more inclined to believe Sharon’s explanations. It is the only one that makes sense. The map gives those who are “up to no good” directions on how to access it.
I agree with Sharon completely. I also believe the map includes a part of each map maker, but acts on its own(it still works after james’s and sirius’s death). As the map knows Snape wouldn’t support the map’s intentions (if he would know the content)it doesn’t show anything to Snape.
All the more reason I was lead to my conclusions. The map has the ability to read the intentions of its user. So, the map would know Fred and George were worthy of its use. The map wouldn’t have to tell Fred and George its original incatations, as Fred and George have already gained access to its use. Fred and George said “I solemnly swear I’m up to no good” and the map gave them access. Then they reckoned there must be a way to turn the map off to protect it from prying eyes, so they said “Mischeif managed” and the map understood. Fred and George repeat the use of these commands because the map responded to them. But they don’t necessarily (and most likely don’t) have anything to do with the original incantations the marauders used. See what I mean?
I figure that the map talked to F&G; just as it talked to Snape. Yes, the map probably did realize the intentions of F&G;, but I do not think that the incantation would change…just like if you want to open a locked door, you can’t just make up a different incantation to unlock it, you need ‘alohomora’. I’ve always thought that the map prompted them through the steps. I mean…if the map says ‘Do you solemnly swear that you are up to no good?’ and F&G; respond with ‘I solemnly swear that I am up to no good’ voila…minimal effort. I have also assumed that the map dropped the hint about clearing it, because the marauders were up-to-no-gooders too, so they would relate with F&G; and protect the map and the user by informing how to shut it off. That is just what I have thought since the book, since Jo never told us…I think that my version seems more logical though, considering an incantation is an incantation and saying something else will not have the same effect.
But… if the map asked Snape, “Do you solemnly swear you are up to no good?” Snape would answer “Yes!” So, the words in the question don’t matter. The map still has to have the ability to read intentions. The fact that the words don’t matter is my whole point.
By the way, does anyone else think it’s strange that so many Weasleys (Ginny, Fred and George) will trust an object that thinks for itself when they can’t see where it keeps its brain? Is Ron also guilty of this at some point in the books? Or perhaps does he get his chance to break this rule in book 7?
I agree that the map can read the intent of its user. It can also recognize those who try to use it as it denys its information to Snape and then proceeds to insult him about his large nose. Therefore, it can probably ID the potential user also.
Also I think Ginny at least distrusts “objects that think for themselves when they can’t see where it keeps its brain” as she reprimands Harry for blindly following the directions in the HBP’s potion book.
Well, she does NOW, but she didn’t when she got involved with Tom Riddle’s diary…
Sure, but wasn’t she possessed by LV in order to get involved with the diary. Either way I get your point. I just figured that of the Weasleys heading into Book 7 she wouldn’t be one to think that way.
Yes, Ron does start to trust a locket (which they know is a horocrux) in the 7th book! but he ends up overcoming it by stabbing the locket with Godrioc Gryfinndor’s sword!
I also think that the map probably understood them and gave them the instructions… But even in the books, there is not a word about how Fred and George knew the incantations…
I found something cool in GOF. On page 286 american edition, harry says to ron (they are mad at each other) “the invisibility cloak wouldn’t have got me over that line.” He means the age line around the Goblet of Fire. But it might have. Xeno lovegood said that the cloak would make the wearer truly invisible. Because it was a special cloak, it might have gotten him past he age line. Just a theory.
mourneforsev:
That was an interesting theory. Personally, I’m inclined to agree, except that Dumbledore drew the age line himself, knowing full well that Harry had the Invisibility Cloak and that it was a Hallow. Of course Harry would never have been that stupid and he didn’t want to enter anyway. But if he could, Dumbledore would have made the age line extra powerful, in case someone (like Ron, perhaps) might “borrow” the Invisibility Cloak.
Whoever wrote this article:
Good point, though Fred and George might have gotten lucky and picked the exact words, “Mischief Managed”. They almost definately couldnt’ve gotten the “I solemnly swear I am up to no good” right, but there is still the trouble of how they worked out that there isn’t a spell to “reveal it’s secrets” as Snape says.
In the books it is revealed several times that Fred and George are two amazingly gifted people. Hermione and others constantly make that comment. Also they are compared to James and Sirius, perhaps their minds thought alike. They were probably able to discover the true incantion. Also the map appears to know who some people are-like snape- so perhaps it recognized the Weasleys as kindred spirits and gave them the incantation.
I haven’t read all 10 pages worth of comments, but the original point was a mistake in the script regarding Lupin knowing how to use the map…he was one of the original four creators of the map. Next…when he took the map from Harry, Lupin had not yet met with Sirius Black to know if he was on the good side or the bad side. He had not talked to Black since before Black was carted off to Azkaban. For all Lupin knew, Black may very well have toasted a crowd of people along with Pettigrew. How many people knew that the Potter’s had changed from Black to Pettigrew as the Secret Keeper? Only Black knew that part of the story until he revealed it himself to HP. That’s why Lupin advised Harry about the dangers of the map…nobody knew just what was up at that point in the saga.
In the book, it said that the map was orginally used by James Potter and his friends, so it makes sense that Lupin would know how to use it.
There is another mistake in the movie version of PoA, which once you have noticed will grate on your nerves forever. Harry of course has just turned 13 in PoA but when he has the conversation with Mr Weasley regarding the ‘notorious mass murderer’ Sirius Black, Mr Weasley says that ‘Thirteen years ago…’ – erm NO it would have been just coming up to 12yrs ago that the events happened. Film fans MUST notice, especially now we have OotP and Sirius saying ‘Fourteen years ago…’
I think that the marauders map knows who to trust. like in book 3 when snape demanded it to reveal its secret it wrote back with quite a few comments. i think Fred and George asked it for the password or how to work it and it told them knowing they where trustworthy.
I believe this is not true at all! If Fred and George were clever enough to know how to work the map, then fine be it. Another thing is, if they made a mistake in the movie, it doesn’t matter. They bought the rights and have the rights to change certain things unfortunately.
Who did Filch confiscate the map from? maybe it was lupin, after all, Filch must be pretty old, no offence filch, so maybe he was the caretaker in their day? “I solemnly swear i am up to no good” and “mischeaf managed” may be the original words lupin and his lot made up, i mean, they’re not exactly hard tpo work out if you’re someone like Fred or Geroge.
has any body noticed that in CoS hermione fixes harry’s glasses in diagon alley (with magic) and the ministry doesn’t get hermione in trouble for the under aged wizard sorcery degree or whatever they call it.
It was not hermione in the book that mended harry’s glasses but Mr. Weasley and even if hermione, it would not have resulted into the breach of decree of reasonable restriction of underage sorcery as no muggle would be present in diagon alley, the same way Lily was not punished for turning teacups into rats. (His muggle family was already into the secret of wizarding world having a witch in their family.)
Technically, Hermione wouldn’t have gotten in trouble at Diagon Alley because she hadn’t been caught. She was in the presence of several adult witches and wizards and so the Ministry would have had no idea. But Lily has a different situation, with turning teacups into rats. J.K. Rowling said that Petunia was under a lot of stress when saying this after having another wizard in the family, and was trying not to remember Lily because she hated her for being a witch. Lily was not turning teacups into rats in her “muggle dunghill” neighborhood, and if she had she still would have gotten in trouble, because, for example, if someone had come to call and she had been doing it, what would the person say if they suddenly saw a rat on the table? What if the rat had not been transfigured properly? What if the next-door neighbor saw her doing it through a window while he was mowing his lawn? They also had Harry doing “Lumos” at the beginning of the third movie, too. Eerie lights out the window? He would have at least gotten a warning letter.
You know how in the movie the map can talk to you? Like how it had words on it when Snape wanted to take the map away from Harry. maybe, it said something to Fred and George because it knew that they were people of mischief and wanted them to know the passwords for it. That’s my theory.
All right, lets get this squared away for all the false fans that never bothered to pick up a book.
Moony = Remus Lupin (Werewolf, thus Moony)
Prongs = James Potter (Turns into a stag, thus Prongs)
Padfoot = Sirius Black (turns into a big, black dog)
Wormtail = Petter Pettigrew (Turns into a rat)
As boys at Hogwarts, these four created the Marauder’s Map. In their seventh year it was confiscated by Filch. Fred and George later find the Map during one of their many visits into Filch�s office. The Map does not �Instruct� anyone how to use it. How stupid would that be? Any one could then use it, right? On the contrary, Filch got the information out of Lupin (having been the �good boy,� of the group, this seems the most likely source of the information) and then jotted down the instructions on a piece of paper which he clipped to the Map for his own use, later. This is how he knew when students were sneaking around the castle, and why it seemed that when Mrs. Norris got you, Filch would suddenly appear as if heralded by the cat (as mentioned in the first book).
For those of you whom claim to be fans but only watch the movies, the still laid plenty of an obvious trail as to why Lupin knew how to use the map, despite leaving out a few little details. If you can�t understand it, you�re an idiot, plain and simple. Do yourself a favor and pick up a book, and book, and start reading. It will expand your ability to understand simple clues and your complicity for intelligent speaking and writing will increase ten fold.
Good Luck.
Book Reader from Rolla – nice theory about the instructions that Filch clipped to the map. There are a couple of problems with it though. The most obvious one, Filch is a Squib. He can’t use magic, nor does he have a wand, so witting the instructions down for his own use would have been completely pointless. The map needs both these elements to operate, so even if non-magic users knew the pass-phrase, they still wouldn’t be able to open it to “know when students were sneaking around the castle.” And if you have a doubt that it had been properly closed when it was confiscated…
“It’s not as bad as it sounds, you know,” said George. “We don’t reckon Filch ever found out how to work it. He probably suspected what it was, though, or he wouldn’t have confiscated it.”[PA, US p.192]
He never knew how to work it and “suspected what it was” not “must have known what it was ’cause it was open and in plain sight.” This seems to indicate that the map was blank, but possibly he saw one of the Marauders using it in order for him to suspect something suspicious about it.
Jo has even said herself that the map “helped them” as Rasila from Amsterdam mentioned on page 9 of the comments here. The map did have sort of a few minds of its own, being able to insult Severus for attempting to force it to reveal itself.
I do agree Filch more likely got the map from Remus than the others, but on purpose – as has been mentioned, it’s not very much worth outside the castle, and it would be a great way to test the mischief making intentions of the next owners if they stole it straight out from Filch’s files. How funny it would be if it was confiscated from Remus only to be confiscated by him fifteen or so years later!
After messing around with the map it probobally told them the exact incantations, like it did for harry when he wanted to get through the hunchback to the secret passage. It is able to say things without people saying the incantations like it did to professor snape. The maps magic can sense things it prolly sensed that they were up to no good and revealed its secret to them.
The Mauraders Map could have told them the incantations the same way that it insulted Snape in PoA (the words showing up when they ask it).
If Fred and George didn’t find out how to use the Mauraders Map, then Harry wouldn’t be able to do lots of the things he did in the books. I like analysing little details usually, but i think this is being read into a wee bit too much.
well lupin helped wright the book? He would have to know how to operate it. I agree with Fleb above me about Fred and George though
Here’s something that stumps me about Fred and George:
Ron said in HBP that Fred and George tried to get him to do an Unbreakable Vow when he was seven. If he was seven, then Fred and George would be nine and none of them would be at Hogwarts or even close to being in possession of a wand. Don’t you need a wand to do an Unbreakable Vow? Ron said they were holding hands and EVERYTHING, so wouldn’t a wand be an important part of the Vow? And if Fred and George borrowed a wand from Charlie, Bill, or Percy then how would they know how to work it? It just doesn’t make sense.
nice point, C.J.. however i’ve always imagined it to be kind of game children play with otherthings in household say screwdriver or plugs. they don’t know how to do things with it but they just try to do it the way they’ve seen elders doing it. my 3 yr old son tries to mend doorstopper everytime it breaks with the screwdriver and somehow manages to insert the screw in the hole. same way, Fred and george must’ve heard the words or seen say bill and charlie practice it, and tried to do it themselves. younger children could always take wand when their parents were busy. in the GoF, a witch was yelling to her child about not picking his father’s wand. Mr. weasley must’ve beaten them to show that it was a wrong thing and to warn them against it as we do when we threaten our children to keep them away from dangerous things like electricity etc. I hope that makes sense.
Book Reader from Rolla, Missouri on March 13, 2008 1:40 PM
ok, your also forgetting that the map is not why filch always turns up when mrs norris sees a student. its mrs. norris who brings filch there, or at least, who alerts filch.
proof of this is that even after harry comes to possess he map in book 3 [and before that when fred and george steal it], filch’s footsteps can be heard and he approaches and finds harry and friends.
so your logic is incorrect
We don’t know if there were instructions on what to say in the map when Fred and George found it.
What says the map can be used with other incantations then those the marauders came up with? And as you said, after many errors the map started leading F&G; closer buy reacting when they where close so that they could in fact find the real incantations?
what if it recognized snape because james and sirius must have made sure that snape of all people could discover and use their creation.
Rowling said that Harry’s son James later steals the Map. This is totally out of the books but just a thought, James (Harry’s Son) wouldn’t be able to use the map at all. Unless Harry taught them. I don’t know but I thought of it.
I think that you are being to picky. All it says is that if you say mischeif manage the map will open. He said mischeif manage. End of story. It opened
Would Filch be able to use the map, since he happens to be a Squib? Also, the little James would probably have heard his dad using the map before, considering Neville is working there and there are other relatives of friends there.
I don’t think Filch could work the map, because it requires a wand and the issuance of magical spell (“I solemnly swear I am up to no good”) to work it.
Being a squib, Filch can’t use a wand or issue spells.
The idea is good that Filch could not use the map as he was a squib.
But if the map doesn’t give any clue to it’s new users, how to work with it, how could Fred and George were able to do that?
Ah, but don’t forget, that the Marauders somehow were able to imprint their personalities into the Map. Not only that, it seems that this imprint is somewhat sentient. When Snape was trying to find out what the “parchment” did, the Marauders didn’t just insult Snape, but they insulted him using very personal remarks, such as dissing his greasy hair or his nose. So maybe when the Weasleys found the Map, the Marauders knew that these were kindred spirits, so maybe the Marauders told them how to use it, including the magic words that would activate and deactivate it. So it would be possible that “I solemnly swear that I am up to no good” and “Mischief managed” were the exact same words used by the Marauders, taught to the Weasleys even after they had disbanded and one of them had died.
Is that the only incongruity you found in the movie? There was so much slashing and changing of the story it made my head spin. Although, I admit I liked it anyway. This just seems like a very minor thing to comment on as it didn’t affect the plot or future plots.
What about the maze in goblet of fire? They not only left out the skrewts and everything, but they changed the whole concept of the thing. The cut out most of the ending with Barty Crouch jr. and his explanation and the dementors taking his soul. How are they going to explain that in future movies? Those are some of many…
You’re correct, of course. I guess it was just the fact that it was a change, rather than an omission, that it bothered me…
Yes, I agree that it is odd that the Weasley’s have a bad habit of trusting thinking-objects. But, bringing up other objects that think, Tom Riddle’s Diary is comparable to what I mean by the map. It wasn’t just reading off of a script, it was responding to what Harry was writing in it. I supposed you could say that that is only because the Diary was a Horcrux…so I suppose this would suggest that the Map is a Horcrux. That is not what I’m suggesting. Although wouldn’t that be funny if it were. In anycase, the point is, with magic, you can put some sort of conciousness into objects, the Map wouldn’t just talk to anyone and say anything, just like the Sorting Hat doesn’t put just anyone in Slytherine.
I still stand on my position that incantations are incantations. If you want to accept that the Map will acknowledge other incantations, than you must accept that the Map is reading intent, since a different incantation would prove the desire and intent to use the map. Saying ‘Show up!’ wouldn’t make the Map spring into life, and saying ‘Unlock!’ wouldn’t unlock a door. You have to know the proper incantation, otherwise things just don’t work.
I think JKR said on her website in the FAQ that the map helped Fred and George to find the precise incantation, so this confirm what has been said before.