Almost exactly 4 years ago, on July 16, 2005, as we all read the end of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince together for the first time, we experienced the death of Dumbledore. And now, with the release of the movie, we’re reliving it, all over again.
For the rest of my life, I will consider J.K. Rowling the greatest author that has ever lived. I don’t make that statement lightly. I do so for many reasons, including how well written the books were, and how skillfully and sneakily J.K. planted clues throughout all the books.
But the main reason I respect J.K. Rowling as an author so much, is that no other author who’s books I have read has created a totally fictional character that, when taken away in the course of the story, made me cry. I am not ashamed to admit it, I cried out loud when I read it when Dumbledore died, and I cried again when I read his funeral.
The next day, I created this web site. It was originally called dumbledoreisnotdead.com (the original content of which is still on this site, and can be found here), and I created it to explore the subject of the death of our beloved Dumbledore, and to help fans through the shock and loss of such a great character, mentor and friend.
It was a few days more than two years later, on July 21, 2007, when Deathly Hallows came out, before we finally were able to learn the truth about Snape and Dumbledore. Thankfully, those of us who have read the books don’t have to wait two whole years to find out what takes place after the death of Dumbledore now. But, that doesn’t mean watching it this time makes it any easier.
Throughout the course of the latest Harry Potter movie, we follow along with the final year of the relationship between Harry and Dumbledore. I must admit, I was a great fan of Richard Harris’ Dumbledore, and Michael Gambon has taken some getting used to for me. But for me, in this his ultimate Dumbledore performance, I think Gambon has really finally captured Dumbledore, and really made me believe, once again, as Richard Harris had done, in the love and care that Dumbledore had for Harry in the books. Just in time for him to be taken from us, again, unfortunately.
I must say, although I enjoy all of the Harry Potter books over and over, I haven’t frequently read Dumbledore’s death scene at the end of Half-Blood Prince, nor his funeral, although I did pick it up again just recently, prior to seeing the movie this week. It was still hard to read, all these years later, but not as bad as the first time, and I think it helped to read it again before seeing it re-enacted on the big screen.
And even though Dumbledore is dead at the end of book 6, for me, I take solace in the fact that books are special, in that they really don’t exist only in the reality of “from beginning to end”. You can pick up Sorcerer’s Stone or Goblet of Fire, and Dumbledore is alive again. As reader, we have that power.
As I wrote originally on this site 4 years ago, as Harry so poignantly reminded us upon Scrimgeour’s insistance that Dumbledore was dead:
“Such loyalty is admirable, or course,” said Scrimgeour, who seemed to be restraining his irritation with difficulty, “but Dumbledore is gone, Harry. He’s gone.” “He will only be gone from the school when none here are loyal to him,” said Harry, smiling in spite of himself. (HBP pg 648/604)
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My personal favorite was the article in the site telling us about dumbledore’s horcrux, Now i strongly feel that JK could have brought dumbledore back, she should have kept the option open till the very end.
Im soo happy your still writing new blogs on this website. Ive been following all your blogs and discussions since the origional dumbledoreisnotdead website.
I like you loved the portrayal of Dumbledore from Harris but I didnt really feel the connection from Gambon. But I dont think this is actually the actors fault but the film makers fault. Due to the film makers not being able to actually produce all scenes between Harry and Dumbledore from the books or make the scenes that are present longer, I feel we didnt see the connection between Harry and Dumbledore in the films.
For instance the very important conversation at the end of Order of the Phoenix wasnt discussed except from a breif quote where Dumbldore basically says “Voldermorts either going to kill you or you will kill Voldermort”. Whereas the whole part of the book I loved where Harry has a rather fatherly son argument with Harry blaming Dumbledore for the death of Sirius was not present.
The books will always be better than the movies and I understand this but why add things into the movies such as the Burrow being torn down in the new film (what was all that about) instead of including the discussion about Horcruxes between Harry and Dumbledore. They didnt even mention what the Hocruxes might be, hows Harry suposed to know that a Horcrux could be a Goblet from Hufflepuff. The film makers have made the last film of Deathly Hallows to be a sort of walk in the dark with Harry blindly looking for some Hocruxes.
And another thing where was Kreacher, the Gaunts, Bill, Fleur and Dobby. For the death of Dobby in the last film which I found soooo sad in the book, I dont think it will be involved. Think about it the audience who havnt read the books will have seen Dobby in only one film. Therefore when he dies in the film I dont think they’ll have as much connection in the last film.
What an absolute let down the film is. Apart from The DH THBP is my favourite book. There has been soooooooo much left out it was painful to watch. I cannot begin to imagine how the last film will make any sense with all the goofs in this film. The ring was not even cracked, How is the wedding going to happen? Why was the house burnt down? Why wasnt kreacher or Dobby mentioned? Harry has no idea about Voldamorts need to secure trophies for his horcruxes. The non mention of Hepzibah and to not mention the tomb of Dumbledore or see him resting in it with his wand is so wrong.
In my opinion the whole film sucked, those who hadnt read the book could surely not have understood what was going on. Why were they flying around like black smoke? I thought that Snape could fly in this book, but it was not until the next book we found out that Voldamort could fly, utter rubbish!
I cant wait for the remake of all the films with someone producing them who has not only read the books but understands them and is as passionate about them as we are on this site!
I agree with you on the fact that Michael Gambon finally brought out the character of Dumbledore in the 6th movie. In the past 3 movies, that nice, fatherly, calm side of Dumbledore seemed to be lacking a bit.
I would have liked to see more tension between Harry and Snape though. It seems that Harry calling Snape “a coward” near the end was not too convincing.
And one last comment: Is it just me or that I was rather disappointed that the new Minister of Magic, Rufus Scrimgeour, was left out in the movie? I thought it would have been useful to highlight the disintegrating relationship between Hogwarts and the Ministry, and that it was not pure “good vs. evil” (Order of the Phoenix vs. Death Eaters), but also involved a government that had a murky stance in the war. There’s no way that the complete corruption of the Ministry could be shown properly in the 7th movie without mentioning the Ministry at all in this 6th one.
I just read the 6th and 7th books for the first time in my life this week. And yes, I literally cried at the death of DD. He was, is and will remain the best characters ever encountered in any book. I so wish I had a mentor like him in my life.
Well, their movie was a big let down. They’ve chosen not to include a lot of things that are pretty important.
But still, watching Albus fall down from the Astronomy Tower made my heart much more than twitch.
Anyways, I am sort of confused now. I have seen the movie and read the books, but this Hogwarts life seemingly has grown onto me. I just can’t get back to real life. Did you all encounter a similar feeling after having read the books? All I have done for the last 3 days is read books, sleep, read books sleep. That’s it. And I am kind of feeling vey sad… as if I am actually facing Dementors. Help.
To: Albus who posted…ahh dear Albus yes we all felt exactly what you’re feeling when we read the books and we felt it again reading them over and over. But remember to keep love in your heart when you feel sad because in the books it was never truly evil vs. good, it was evil vs. love!
Now on to David (the site master), thank you for the many many years of your dedication. Your love of the books and us fans shows no bounds. I’ve always said you remind me a bit of Dumbeldore, lol. And having read the book and sobbing like a baby when Dumbeldore died, though I knew it was coming in the movie, I found myself once again thinking no! please dont let it happen, maybe it wont happen, I really dont want this to happen. I think seeing it in the movie made it more final for me than the end of Deathly Hallows.
As for this movie, *heavy sigh* I can’t express how disappointed I was. I kinda felt like the rug was pulled out from under me. There was just too many ommissions in this movie and way too much tween romance. Those tween situations would have done much better as snippets thrown in to lighten the mood during what should’ve been a really dark and intense movie. My biggest gripes are of course **warning spoilers** the battle within Hogwarts being left out just made it seem very anti-climatic, as well as no Bill Weasley being attacked by Fenrir the werewolf (to be precise the movie doesnt even tell you he’s a werewolf. People around me kept saying what’s wrong with that guy?)
Harry not being immobilized by Dumbeldore during the death scene it really just didnt work for me, and 2 Snape biggies missing were his line of “DONT CALL ME A COWARD” after Harry calls him one because as we all know in the end he was not a coward and I really felt that was relevant. And most of all where was the part of Harry finding out Snape (oh excuse me, Professor Snape, lol) was responsible for telling Voldemort about the prophecy thus he was responsible for the death of Harry’s parents. That was HUGE! Because they never truly delved into the prophecy and what it really meant in OOTP I really thought they would have to in this one to make sense of what they were doing looking through these memories so it was overal a big let down for me and it seems a shame it was left out especially for those not reading the books. The connection between Dumbeldore and Harry seemed to be lacking perhaps because they didnt include more of the pair working together to bring down Voldemort.
This movie started out really well the first 30-40 minutes then just crashed and burned. I’m trying to hold out hope for the last 2 but given the fact they have the same team of writers/directors/producers I’m having a hard time holding onto that hope. I also, could’ve accepted no funeral for Dumbeldore better had they inserted the part where the new minister of magic asks for Harry’s help and Harry turns him down flat and the minister says, “well I can see you’re Dumbeldore’s man through and through”. and Harry replies with a resounding, “YES I AM!” at least that would’ve made the ending it was just left so flat. It’s going to take me a while to get over this.
Oh I forgot to mention, on a good note for the movie I did think Michael Gambon finally had the role of Dumbeldore down pat (as you said just in time to go away) and I also thought Tom Feltons portrayal of the tormented Draco Malfory was spot on! He really shined in this movie.
Am I the only one who found the movie unsatisfactory? It focused too long on the vanishing cabinet, invented scenes that did nothing for the plot, did not stay true to the book and failed to develop the characters well enough for the viewer to form a bond.
Yes, Dumbledore’s role in this movie did increase but he is still nothing like the version we read about in the book. He’s still jumpy, nervous and loud. The Dumbledore we grew to know and love was calm, endearing and WISE. We never get any of that patented Dumbledore charm or wisdom in any of the movies, apart from the first movie.
Yes, it is a movie and can’t include as much information as the book, but doesn’t that automatically make it inferior?
I have to say, the Half-Blood Prince is my favorite Harry Potter movie. I love it from beginning to end. I’ve been reading about this movie for more than a year now, so I knew all the changes and cuts being to the story months in advance based on test screen viewers� reactions and the information from advance screening viewers. I think this let me accept the changes far more easily. The movie absolutely has problems, but I’ve never enjoyed watching a Harry Potter movie more (Well, I love the third movie too, but not as much.) It’s so nice to see some canon or close to canon lines along with the beautiful cinematography. I honestly think the first two films tried to be far too faithful to the books and suffered for it. I’m glad Yates is directing DH I and II.
The young cast has improved so much. Tom Felton, Jim Broadbent, and Alan Rickman are amazing, and finally, Gambon has shown us he can be Dumbledore. I really think he does better than Richard Harris did in this film. (I completely hate Gambon in the GoF movie) I love the line in HBP where Dumbledore says “Trust me.” I couldn’t have imagined anything better. I think this explains Harry�s behavior, even though he isn�t immobilized � he doesn�t want to leave Dumbledore, but he swore to follow any orders and trusts him. I almost didn’t want to go see this movie because of seeing Dumbledore die. (Someone screamed in the theater when it happened.) I think the wand lit vigil is very touching and at least partly makes up for the missing funeral. The funeral was filmed, so it might be in the first part of DH, but I don’t really mind if it isn’t there.
I’ve got to agree with the sentiment that the half blood prince was a tremendous let down. How in the world can you create action scenes that didn’t exist in the book and then cut out the largest action scene in the book. I really don’t get it. They made the good guys look totally inept. The bad guys walk right into the good guys most protected facility under unusually high security, kill the strongest good guy, and then walk out without a fight. They didn’t even run, not to mention why wouldn’t they stick around and do more havoc since nobody got in their way.
Secondly I’m really concerned about the next two movies because they’ve altered the script so far from the original that they can’t go back. I would really like to see them remake 3-7, with the director from 1 and 2. Atleast you can tell he read the books and enjoyed them.
I agree with Tim from NY. If the invented and counterproductive scene of the invasion of the Weasley’s ending with their home being burned had been eliminated there would have been time to show the battle at the Astronomy Tower. Dumbledore would only have had to mention to Harry that he’d left members of the Order patroling Hogwarts to set the scene for the battle.
I agree that Michael Gambon has finally (almost) redeemed himself in this portrayal of Dumbledore. He didn’t portray the wise tower of strength that Harris did until this movie. I thought Gambon’s performance in PofA was the worst.
I agree with many of the thoughts expressed in the prior postings, especially in relation to the flying “black smoke,” the need to tie in the prophesy and Snape’s responsibility for the death of Harry’s parents more clearly, and the importance of trophies in relation to the horcruxes. There could have been just a bit more passion in “the kiss” without changing the tone of the story. I think we needed to have one of the first two directors back again.
Just to let you all know people who think the funeral has been cut is hasnt been cut entirely. It will be in the first part of Daethly hallows… maybe as like a flashback scene or something. And also I’ve heard that instead of Dobby dying apparantly Kreacher will be killed instead. Because Dobby has only ever been seen in one film by people who havnt read the books so audeicnes wont have the sort of connection with people like us who have read the books over and over again growing to love Dobby. Finally the battle of Hogwarts from HBP wasnt involved cause they didnt want the battle of Hogwarts in DH to be too repetative. The HBP movie had soo many flaws but afterall the movies will never live up to the books of JK (the worlds best author in my eyes).
Funny 🙂
But I read somewhere on the web, that they (the Movie makers) are going to add lot of stuff from that HBP book into the DH part 1 movie. Guess they finally got the whole picture… maybe I shouldn’t say that yet, cause they always seem to do something wrong!
Well, I hope so! It would be nice to see those in a flashback. And I read that Dumbledore’s funeral will also be included in Deathly Hallows-1.
Loved the books and the movies. I would have changed the ending a little in book seven. I think when Harry and his group were putting their kids on the train. It would have been nice if Dudley and his wife would have shown up to put their little auburn haired girl with green eyes on the train. Whom, incidentally was named Lilly at the insistence of her grandmother ‘Petunia’.
LOL! Well one thing’s for certain, KMD – her paternal grandfather would have had a stroke when she exhibited magical tendencies!
Yes, It would be great to see a Dursley in Hogwarts!
You know what? I think they should give J.K. Rowling a small part in the last film – or at least a Hitchcock – like cameo, you know, where you have to strain your eyes to spot her. I also still think Stephen Fry should be in it as well – maybe in a picture frame… maybe as Phineas Nigellus!
Yeah, maybe it would be a good thing that J.K.R. gets a small few minutes to say something or… (this is just like in the Twilight movie, when you see Stephenie Meyer for a few seconds in a local restaurant, where Bella and her father is dining.) Don’t think Stephen Fry would make a good Pillius though, but maybe he could be someone else?
Naushaad, why do you think Mr Fry wouldn’t make a good Mr Nigellus? Because he’s got a too, er, round, kind looking face? Have you ever listened to his Phineas in the audio books? He is sooo brilliant at doing these sneering, sardonic characters ( his Snape is spot on – and that’s an understatement..)
I agree, Siena. Stephen Fry would be a great Phineas Nigellus.
I know he “reads” the lines from the book excellently, but addapting the persona of Phillius Black, I don’t know if it would sooth him; him being kindda jolly and everything. But I don’t really care about it, If they choose him I would be happy, if they didn’t I wouldn’t really care… [don’t get mad] _:)
No, I promise I won’t get mad, don’t you worry. I was just curious._:)
When I first read the sixth Harry Potter book, I was kind of wishing that Dumbledore was dead. Not because I didn’t like him, but because I thought that right from the beginning of the series, Voldemort would have wanted to kill Dumbledore so, for me, it was just what I was expecting in a way.
I think that the idea of putting J K Rowling in the film is really good – they did it with Twilight – Stephenie Meyer appeared in a shot, but maybe with Harry Potter, this would just be considered copying. The two franchises are both different and need to be considered differently.
I was disappointed with this film…
The comments about viewing the films and books as separate entities doesn’t cut it for me. I know there are alot of features in the books that are extremely difficult to covney with film, i.e., something as simple as Harry’s thoughts, which contribute so much to the books. However, cutting out crucial scenes and adding pointless ones (such as the attack on the Burrow) hardly helps the matter. J.K. gives so much brilliant material with which it was possibly to make really good films. The first two films are my favourites for two main reasons: 1) they stick relatively close to the plot lines of the books; 2) Harris as Dumbledore is excellent, whereas Gambon fails miserably (I don’t think he was particularly good in Half-Blood Prince, contrary to what seems to be the majority on here).
They’ve made it an uphill incline for Deathly Hallows already…
Here is something to think about.
Why did Harry lacked the information about horcruxes in the seventh book and risked his life more than we could count? Because A.Dumbledore was dead. Why is Dumbledore dead? Its not because of the curse from the ring, because D.Malfoy brought the death eaters to Hogwarts. Why did he do that? Because his puppet Rosmerta saw A.Dumbledore leaving the school. D.Yates left that part out.
Why does Harry look for objects which are very powerful and unique as horcruxes? Because he learnt that Voldemort liked to collect items like that, and turned them into horcruxes. D.Yates left that part out also.
Wow did Harry, Ron, Hermione, Luna, Dean, Griphook and Ollivander escape Malfoy Manor? They were rescued by Dobby, who saved Harry’s life over and over. We never saw those life savings in the movies.
How are we going to hold all those people and the marriage in the Burrow now its burnt down? How are we going to understand Fleur loves Bill so much that she does not care if he’s scarred or not.
Although I have a question about the 6th book: Why Voldemort did not come to Hogwarts when he had the chance? He could kill Harry, Dumbledore, and possibly anyone else too. Don’t tell me that “he questioned his powers of killing Harry” because he did not question his powers when he went tracking 7 Harry’s at the same time, airborn. He sure wasn’t that stupid to think of borrowing another’s wand to do the job.
I’m looking forward to seeing the other movies nevertheless. I just hope that they will include Neville and Aberforth properly.
I said this before the 7th book: “Endings of the books are like this: 1st one with Harry, Ron and Hermione(best friends), 2nd with Harry, Ginny and Ron(Gryffindor), 3rd with Harry and Hermione(Ravenclaw), 4th with Harry and Cedric(Hufflepuff), 5th with Harry and Sirius(Father), and 6th with Harry and Dumbledore(Teacher). We will see much more of Neville in the 7th book.”
I want to see an epic moment of Nagini’s head flying in mid air.
Izzet, don’t foget that the Malfoy Manor escapade isn’t until the next book. It didn’t occur in the Half-Blood Prince.
Izzet, when you say Voldemort had a chance to get into Hogwarts, do you mean when Draco managed to get the Death Eaters in? I would say it was simply because he feared Dumbledore. Yes, Dumbledore was seen leaving Hogwarts but still I guess he didn’t want to risk bumping into him. And I don’t think Voldemort dared to go after Harry again before he was sure Dumbledore was finished.
And by the way you are right-I want to see more Neville in DH movie. Yes, the Nagini scene should be fantastic. I have just watched a trailer and I must say it looked pretty epic – very dark. There was even a scene where Harry is smashing some up things in a room or the tent, it was probably when Ron left or when he was frustrated about Dumbledore. So Film Harry is finally allowed to show some real rage and anger – after OoTP and HBP showed Harry far too one dimensional. Good for Radcliffe too – he can show some of his acting skills.
First of all thank you very, very much for this heartfelt piece of writing – it was just what I needed to read after watching the movie – all the other websites seem to just publish how much money the film has already made, plus what kind of dress Emma Watson was wearing to the Premiere, etc. So your article on the emotional implications, leaving aside all superfluity, was more than welcome to me!
But to comment on the film now – after I have swallowed (and almost choked on) my disappointment – too many unnecessary interferences while essential plot is being left out, plus unconvincingly connected dialogue pieces that feature none but really none of Rowling’s subtle brilliance – I am trying to focus on the plus points: Yes, the tention between Harry and Snape has been completely left out (Snape’s lamely delivered message to Harry he should enjoy the rest of his holiday must have been a mistake?) it might have been done for a purpose: to leave Snape’s intentions completely in the dark. Maybe Kloves and Yates saw him as this rather controlled person who wouldn’t freak out in front of his pupil shouting “Don’t call me coward”. I can live with this decision. I can also live with Rickman’s tortured face and cracked voice when his Snape actually carries out the deed. Gambon’s “Please” sounded like a request, there was no pleading in it which could have been mistaken for begging for mercy. It was made obvious here that a conspiracy between Snape and Dumbledore was going on.
The real carrier of this film, however, was for me Tom Felton – he, in my opinion, has always been the most talented of the young actors, but in this piece he really outshone everyone else, even Michael Gambon – who, to me, is an excellent Dumbledore. He doesn’t play him as this grand father figure (although he includes elements of this as well) but rather as the ambigious figure Dumbledore really is. And this is why I don’t understand at all that they left out all this tension and question of trust between Harry and him – Harry did not, as the film suggests, blindly follow his teacher, but questioned him, enraged him and doubted him! This is the main flaw of the film, it really depicts Harry as this slightly dumb lamb with no will of his own!
But to conclude with the scenes I really enjoyed: I think they got the cave scene just right, the picture of the open water with Dumbledore and Harry standing on this small rock, the music… excellent! Then furthermore Harry emerging from the water in the midst of the blazing fire conducted by a still very very strong and powerful Dumbledore (this scene so moved me: although he has been weakened by the potion which made him see his worst memory of pleading for Ariana’s life he manages the strength to produce this powerful inferno to rescue Harry).
Then there is this scene with Draco standing on top of the astronomy tower, a solitary figure, deep in thoughts while Ron and Lavender, totally oblivious to any rising calamity, kiss in the corridor. Another would be the way the music rises just before the Death Eaters appear – McGonagall sensing a kind of danger, ushering the kids lurking in the corridor inside, then the camera moves over the castle – yes they got some things right. Unfortunately too much is wrong…
Wow – As someone who loves the movie and thinks it is the best yet, I’m a bit surprised reading the very negative reactions of everyone here. Everyone sounds like a purist and despite agreeing with almost everything that has been said, when the movie is considered separately from the book, I think it flows very well and is the most enjoyable yet. Many other book fans I know love the movie too. I’m not sure why people think Columbus should return for the last two films. Given the length of the later books, even he couldn’t have stuck to the plot so much. I think the first two films suffered from the way the books were adapted. With the plots lifted straight from the books (along with all the expository dialogue) the films are slower, less impressive, and I think, lack the books’ magical atmosphere. I’m not saying HBP’s mood is exactly correct, though I love it the most. I think PoA did the best job in capturing the feeling of the books (even when failing to explain the Mauraders) as well as being visually impressive; therefore, it was the most critically acclaimed. Now back to the HBP film…
I think the tension between Harry and Snape is there. Rickman’s expressions are always impressive and convey this. Snape’s message at the party tells us that Dumbledore is away and he doesn’t tell us where. Spinner’s End is wonderfuly played by Carter, Rickman, and McCrory. As for it being obvious Snape is working with Dumbledore – I think the main problem is the placement of the scene where Snape and Dumbledore argue (they should have mentioned Malfoy because then the argument would have been more likely to be taken in a different way). I love the Astonomy Tower scene. Gambon delivers all the lines wonderfuly, except perhaps the “Severus, please,” and I don’t think this is delivered horribly. I like Gambon’s expression at the time. There are non-book-readers who will not catch this – they will take it at face value. Movie Snape has always been far more controlled than book Snape. It would have been out of character for him to scream at Harry as he does in the book. Originally, the movie had a line where Snape tells Harry “You might have your mother’s eyes, but you’re as dim as your father.” I was disappointed when it was reported this was cut, but now I think people would have said it makes it obvious Snape loves Lily.
The waitress scene and library scene don’t seem out of character for movie Harry. They actually flow in the story. The Burrow attack does not, though it doesn’t stand out or spoil the movie – it’s just for cheap action and could have been replaced with the memory of the Gaunts or a DADA class.
The trio’s acting is so much better. Emma doesn’t overact or use her eyebrows too much anymore. Dan is actually very funny and better at crying. Rupert is hilarious. The love potion scene with him is so wonderful. I wouldn’t cut any of the romance (Jessie Cave and Freddie Corma couldn�t be better), which is mixed appropriately with the shots of Malfoy in the Room of Requirement. This gives a movie an ominous feel and I love how Draco is dressed, in that all black suit. I’ve already said on the previous page that Tom plays him perfectly. It’s so easy to feel sorry for Draco, like when the bird he uses to test the cabinet comes out dead.
Hero Fiennes Tiffin and Frank Dillane are also wonderfully cast. We can see the darkness in the character of Riddle in the memories and also the charisma. Broadbent doesn�t have to look like the book�s description of Slughorn to be Slughorn in the movie. The new teacher at Hogwarts has always been perfectly cast and Broadbent is no exception. I like it when Harry says he and Professor Snape don�t see �eye to eye.� It�s also wonderful that as in the book, Harry�s dialogue when trying to get Slughorn to divulge the memory follows the dialogue of Tom Riddle. Dan is so funny under the effects of Felix, but I love how the burial scene goes from funny to touching with Broadbent�s monologue.
I liked all the foreshadowing put in for DH, i.e. Ron�s expression when seeing Harry comforting Hermione, the way Harry twitches his neck when touching the Horcrux and Dumbledore�s expression that shows he realizes Harry is a Horcrux.
I guess I don�t seem to agree with a lot of people here on my order of favorite HP movie because I would say HBP, PoA, OotP, SS, CoS, and GoF. I think HBP is a very good adaptation and that points will obviously have to be changed to make DH work. I think with two movies for DH, Yates can do it.
I was just wondering if anyone had seen the movie in the 3D imax? There are so many conflicting reports on how much is in 3D. some say 12 minutes, some say 20 some say 30. I do not want to know how many minutes I want to know what part does it begin and what part does it end. Ive seen the movie (am hoping its better 2nd time around) so I’ll know what you’re talking about it you can tell where 3D begins and where it ends. Again, not how many minutes I’m looking for the parts in 3D. Thanks so much.
I haven’t seen the movie in IMAX 3D, but people (on a forum) who have, say it is from the beginning to when Harry apparates to the Burrow (12 minutes).
I only have myself to blame for my disappointment in the movie – having just re-read THBP prior to opening night. I believe the books and the movies must be judged separately. So, I’ll give it some time, and when I watch the movie again, it probably won’t be so bad.
For me, the ending where Harry says he won’t return to Hogwarts is what created such feelings of disappointment.
Rather than Hermione and Ron showing their support for Harry in promising to help him find the horcruxes, the dialogue insinuates that Harry can’t possibly hope to be successful without them. Didn’t Snape say somewhere along the way that Harry is a mediocre wizard who has surrounded himself with more talented friends? This ending seems to just reinforce that belief.
As for those who have posted wondering how they will show this or that during the final movies since so much has been left out – we should all know by now that the story will be rewritten with parts left out, new parts added, characters changed, and becoming its own story. So, again, we shouldn’t judge the movie(s) based on the books. They are, and must remain, separate.
Dumbledore is Alive…
In HBP, Could the Horcrux in the Quartz chamber be Dumbledore’s Horcrux? Prof Snape (HBP) creating the original potion that held the Horcrux in the podium.
RAB (classmate of Snape?) stealing the original dark one’s Horcrux. Giving it to Dumbledore in the past.
Dumbledore killing Aragog *King of Spiders to create his Horcrux and Slughorn helping to recreate the potion to relock the Horcrux in the podium. Dumbledore’s blood to gain entry to the chamber.
Dumbledore’s pleading when drinking the potion; saying “this in my fault”.
Why the the scharade? To protect harry’s memories and authenticity of the horcrux ruse. Sharing memories with the dark one etc… This would help place Dumbledore at the scene of the final battle.
Sara and Anonymus, you are probably right – seeing the books and the films as different works of art is something i probably have to learn… but still, when the film, which still claims to be based on J.k.Rowling’s texts, deliberately cuts out important plot, it is hard for me to handle. How are they going to resolve the Snape mystery now in DH; will they ever tell that he was the one who delivered the phrophesy to Voldemort? I mean this is one of the key points of the books, or am I wrong – and also one of the most exciting, as it gives answers to the questions on why Harry’s parents were killed, why he was the chosen one. Just letting the film Snape utter: “How grand it must be to be the chosen one” isn’t enough information in my opinion. The second bit missing is the conflict between Dumbledore and Harry. Harry’s doubts and anger whom to really trust are really really essential for the plot development in DH – for me, this was part of Harry’s great struggle and added interest to both him and the character of Dumbledore – Harry and Dumbledore are far too one dimensional in the films. It annoys me that the director/writer often excuse this omissions by saying it would complicate the story too much. But I mean – these omissions are the story really or not? And most of the viewers have read the book and can surely cope with seeing the plot development on screen.. and those who haven’t read the books will leave the film very very confused…
I liked you (Anonymus) mentioning Harry saying “He (Snape) and i don’t exactly look eye to eye” – as this is exactly what they will (hopefully) literally do in DH, so there might be hope they won’t deviate from the plot too much here. By the way, where did you get the information from about this particular line being cut from Snape’s dialogue that you mentioned as well (“You might have your mother’s eyes but you are as dim as your father.”)?
I also have to agree with you about Rupert Grint – he was really wonderful in HBP, his facial expression when facing Cormac wanting him to introduce him to “his friend Granger” were spot on, and so was his love potion induced swooning… The casting was well done too as you said – for all of the “new” characters, Voldemort (young and older, they even resembled each other) and then Lavender and Cormac, they were all brilliant.
Ahhhhhh I feel vindicated. Having read the articles from Jack – London, Angie Brewer- Bognor, Winnie- SYD, and Melanie -Ohio.
I totally agree with all of you! Plus why make up stuff, if the books are so rich? Weren’t they complaining that they can’t show everything? Of course you can’t if you have to include your own crud. Plus, can someone explain to me, how Harry is ever going to remember / find Rowena’s Crown since he did not hide the half-blood book himself?
I mean, Peter Jackson managed to satisfy the Lord of the Ring crowd, why can’t they do the same for us?
I agree with you too, Siena. I think one of the major flaws in the OotP film is how the prophecy is severely underplayed. They didn’t use HBP to fix this mistake, but since it was missing in OotP, it makes sense, considering this movie alone, that it isn’t mentioned. But of course, the filmmakers have to consider DH. I guess they still can reveal this information about Snape in his memories in DH. Snape still comes off as fairly ambiguous in the movies, to me. Harry still mistrusts Snape, as shown by his argument with Lupin, which is more heated than it is in the book. Harry and Dumbledore do not have their argument about Snape in the film – Harry does not have as much of an idea in the movie as to what Draco (along with Snape) is doing, as in the book (Since the battle is cut), so he can’t really argue his case – but Harry also tells Lupin that Dumbledore can make mistakes, showing he is not blindly agreeing with whatever Dumbledore believes. Before this, Lupin had said: “It comes down to whether or not you trust Dumbledore’s judgment. Dumbledore trusts Snape, therefore I do.” When Dumbledore and Harry return to the school after their trip to the cave, Dumbledore tells Harry: “Whatever happens, trust me.” (I think these lines are wonderfully delivered by Gambon.) I know these lines don’t make up for what was omitted, but I think they show Harry has questions on who to trust, but ultimately trusts Dumbledore, and therefore Snape when Snape motions for him to be quiet on the tower. Harry’s misgivings about Dumbledore’s past life don’t start until he reads Rita Skeeter and listens to Muriel. I can actually forgive this omission, despite its importance.
People who saw the test-screening last September confirmed Snape’s line about Harry’s parents, but advance-screening viewers who saw the completed movie a few weeks earlier (a few weeks before July 15, I mean) reported that the line was cut.
Lumos586, I have to respond to your comment that “Peter Jackson managed to satisfy the Lord of the Ring[s] crowd, why can’t they do the same for us?” I think that what Jackson did to please the LOTR crowd simply would NOT have pleased the Harry Potter crowd.
To be fair, I must admit my bias. I’ve read the Lord of the Rings (LOTR) trilogy as well as all the Harry Potter Books. Given my age, I read the LOTR books while in grammar school while I read the Harry Potter books in my 20s. I enjoyed the Harry Potter books immensely, but you never forget the first set of characters you fell in love with as a kid.
Just my opinion, but very few of the LOTR crowd I’ve found thought there was any chance that Peter Jackson would get every plot turn, story arch or character into his three movies and would have to do things to summarize hundreds of pages in a few “movie” moments. The books are entirely too long for even three movies. Indeed, my favorite character (Tom Bombadil) was written out of the movies, and the narration at the beginning of the third LOTR movie is nowhere to be found in any of the books but is a summary of what was written in more than one of the books. By and large (based on the many reviews and exchanges on the internet by fans that I’ve read), the LOTR crowd did NOT love the movies because Jackson slavishly followed Tolkien’s text. Rather, on balance, people genuinely believed that Jackson communicated what Tolkien would have wanted had he been limited to similar media.
Harry Potter fans (again, based on what I’ve read on these pages and others and people to whom I’ve talked) believe that either (i) the film makers could get nearly all of the information in the movies by lengthening or modifying them, or (ii) the film makers must follow Rowling’s text as closely as possible with no detour. These expectations are different from those held by the LOTR fans I know or heard from. Accordingly, what Jackson did to please the LOTR crowd would simply NOT please the Harry Potter fan base.
Lastly, the LOTR crowd had decades between the books and the movies. Through book sales, you’ll find that Tolkien’s books were more famous in the 70s than they were prior to word that the movies were being made. Because Harry Potter fans are in the unique position to evalutate the movies after only a couple of years after the books were published, this lack of time might lead to their expectations of what can be done in a movie.
All of this being said, I agree that there are parts of the movies that I don’t get/agree with. My favorite example is in Goblet of Fire where Dumbledore appears to cower just before the Goblet throws out each champion’s name. Simply put, Dumbledore would never cower — not even to Sauran.
Yes Dumbledore is dead again and this time he has not managed to inform Harry even that much he could manage last time. WHY WERE LESSONS CUT SHORT IN THE MOVIE? Leave apart the fact that they failed to give due weightage to the OOP, DA, Prophecy, Dobby, Kreacher under inheritance of Harry. did anyone see any Tiara in Room of Requirement? How will Harry learn about other ‘possible’ Horcruxex? The whole point that Harry needed to learn about his enemy to vanquish him and the support he needed from his friends was played down. I was highly disappointed with the end when they did not bring Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Luna and Neville for fighting along with OOP members, same as in last movie.
However scenes of Attacks on muggles, Weasely’s shop and the fire scene in the cave were good. Acting of Daniel in the Aragog burial scene was very good and surely they have drawn attention towards Elder wand.
Coming to elder wand, it has been made intentional on part of Dumbledore to let Draco disarm him as if it was his plan.
I think Yates has got it all wrong when it comes to the power of love. He seems to got it all mixed with teenage love. Most of the time it seemed just a triangular (2) love story.
They have also failed to bring it to life that Harry understands the difference between entering arena with your head high and being dragged to the arena. The point is all lost by them THAT IT MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD.
Um, did anyone else think Harry was acting a bit drunk in the Aragog scene? I mean, “Not to mention the pincers tic tic tic”? Can anybody tell me why?
Aranel: Harry was supposed to be under the influence of the the felix felicis potion which made him feel really good like he could do no wrong, a little full of himself, lol. That’s why he acted that way. I thought that was one of the funniest parts of the movie!
Thanks again to all contributors for thoughtful input. I was also reminded of the LOTR comparison for the films. You have to enjoy the film as a film as the director can only include parts of the novel and has to interpret. On the whole I loved it; Ron’s love potion scene was brilliant and so were the wardrobe scenes in the Room of Requirement. They illustrate a big difference between the book and the film and between people who have read the book and those who haven’t: if you have read the book you wonder why the director would give away how the Death Eaters were going to get into Hogwarts, when in the book you don’t really know what Malfoy has been repairing. I think there are two reasons for this: firstly, the books are from Harry’s viewpoint which enabled Rowling to hide loads of stuff from the reader to create suspense and sympathy for Harry, secondly, those scenes were a gift to film maker as they tell the story through pictures insted of dialogue.
However, I could not see the point of the cafe scene or burning down the burrow. One aspect I don’t think was given full weight was Harry’s anger and hatred of Snape. Every other character tells him to trust Snape and he intervenes several times in the book to help although Harry complains but not being clear about why Harry hates Snape so much makes Harry seem like a child with a pointless grudge against a nasty teacher.
I can’t understand why they left Harry unpetrified and missed out the fight scene at the end but as for giving away the ending, my companion, who has not read the books had one question at the end,” So, is Snape good or bad then?” I think the director has done his job.
In this movie, it made me happy that Quidditch is back. Harry the captain, Ron and Ginny and the others were so good. But I still don’t understand why they had to add the Burrow-attack scene when they cut out more important scenes like Horcrux discussion, Harry’s potion book hiding, Dobby and Kreacher, Dumbledore’s funeral etc.
But it is to be said that I really enjoyed the movie, though the death of Dumbledore was a great shock.
I think I speak for everyone here that I believe that Dumbledore’s death was rushed.
Apart from the fact that they missed vital parts from the book, such as Voldemort’s need to collect trophies, which will make it a bit confusing when Harry suddenly knows what Voldemort’s horcruxes are sealed in, I did not feel the same way about Dumbledore’s death as I did in the book.
Plus, there are a couple of movie mistakes. Take apparating inside hogwarts walls for example, the only excuse there is for this is that being Dumbledore has its advantages. I believe the only reason they did this was to save valuable time and as a result, they have missed out the vital bits of information that will be crucial if people wish to understand the final 2 films.
It was awesom. The sixth year of Harry in Hogwarts, has focused again by the film. The actors were better than ever. I liked Daniel, Rupert and Emma. Tom Felton was not bad like previous films. Michael Gambon was just like a real Albus Dumbledore, described in the book. Jessie Cave and Bonnie Wright also did well. And Alan Rickman was great. Well, ‘alf-Blood Prince is the best film I’ve ever seen.
Thanks,sm. That makes sense.
Thank you Dave for giving us the opportunity to talk about the film and the books in depth with people who really know what they are talking about!
One of the things I have really enjoyed as a kind of side line to reading the books has been learning how books are turned into films. The books are so long and detailed that it’s not possible to put everything into the films so part of it is down to interpretation by the film-makers. Having said this I have some issues with the film! (Interesting to read Jack from London who seems to have inside information on which scenes have been filmed but not included and why. I can see that putting Dumbledore’s funeral at the beginning of DH1 would work. I can also see why the battle at the end of HBP has been left out.)
I wondered why there was the long delay in releasing the film of HBP and whether is was because they had to modify things in light of the way events turned out at the end of Deathly Hallows? Does anyone know? It seems to me that there are too many clues (foreshadowings) in this film for my liking. To me, one of the most shocking events in DH was learning that Harry definitely was a horcrux and we didn’t know this until right at the last minute. In the film, having the ring react in the way it does when Harry touches it and Dumbledore looking significantly at Harry gives far too much away I think.
I agree with Craig when he says there’s not enough reference to Tom Riddle collecting significant objects. THis could have been remedied with one line when instead Dumbledore suggests the horcruxes are likely to be everyday objects…this is misleading…they could but they weren’t in Voldemort’s case.
The other part of the film that troubles me is the scene at the top of the astronomy tower. Harry needs to be immobilised because otherwise he would not stand by..and also it is key that no-one else knew that Harry was at the top of the tower (though it’s possible Snape put two and two together in the book if he noticed the second broomstick). Does the way the scene is portrayed in the film cause a problem for the whole business of the elder wand at the end of DH? If Dumbledore allows Draco to disarm him (as he does in the film) rather than it being a consequence of him being busy immobilising Harry (as in the book) has Draco truly WON the elder wand? This is I think the reason why not having Harry immobilised in the film is really problematic. THough I’m sure the film makers will gloss over this.
The other problem with this scene is that Harry not knowing which side Snape is on is absolutely core to DH. Snape telling Harry to shhh before he goes up to kill Dumbledore gives too much away about which side Snape is on. Dumbledore was adamant that Harry should not know just incase Voldemort used occlumency on him….
The other crucial bit which was left out was Harry calling Snape a coward at the end of the book. In the film it is Bellatrix who calls him a coward during the Spinners End Scene. Surely it would have been possible to include that crucial line?
Apart from these quibbles I have to say I think the film is excellent and agree with Anonymous. I think they have all improved greatly as actors and Tom Felton is fantastic…he really makes the film work. Dumbledore is magnificent…you really believe his relationship with Harry. I disagree with Siena…Harry doesn’t begin to mistrust/question Dumbledore until DH after reading Rita Skeeta etc…so his trust of Dumbledore in the film is ok.
I love the way Harry’s relationship with Ginny is developed and contrasted with Ron and Lavender. I think the Quidditch scene is very well done (my son thought it was the best bit of the film!), also the scene when Harry takes the Felix Felicis. (though what’s with the whole fish business? totally not necessary.) I love the passing reference to Lupin and Tonk’s relationship. Spinners end is done very well. I love the thing they do with Tom Riddle’s voice in the memory scenes…overtones of snake! very clever.
But….I think they must be going to leave out Dobby in DH and this worries me as Harry’s burial of Dobby is another absolutely key part of DH and I think Harry burying Kreacher will simply not have the same resonance…unless they really do the bit about Kreacher and Regulus well (this is one of Rowlings absolutely best bits of the whole series). Also, I can’t see how they will do the wedding unless they make it Tonks and Lupin’s instead of Bill and Fleurs…then it won’t matter that the Burrow has been burnt down (what was that about?)
It’s interesting you bring up the point of the filmmakers modifying things for DH, Joe. I know Warner Brothers said they wanted to be guaranteed of a major summer blockbuster in 2009 because of the writers’ strike. (They had The Dark Knight for 2008.) I think they thought HBP would make more money if it were released around the same time in the summer as The Dark Knight. David Yates did mention tweaking things, though, but I think that’s usual if they have more time, since they claim HBP was ready for November. Maybe the foreshadowing for DH was already in place for November, but I know they did have to make some changes. There was originally a scene where Harry takes Dumbledore’s wand to keep – of course this wouldn’t work for DH, so it had to be cut. I actually like the fact that Harry twitches his neck. I don’t think it’s too obvious a clue, especially to people who haven’t read the books.
I don’t think it’s out of character for Harry when he isn’t immobilized, but still doesn’t intervene during the tower scene. Dumbledore told him to trust him – Harry doesn’t want to, but ultimately decides to. He later feels horrible for not acting. I think they still could have made it that Draco took Dumbledore by surprise, with his being in such a weak state, and managed to disarm him against his will, but as you said, Dumbledore seems to intend it too happen. I’m not sure why. Draco will still have to be the master, since the power of the wand can’t die with Dumbledore, but I agree the filmmakers might just ignore the fact that if Dumbledore intended to be disarmed, Draco shouldn’t win the wand.
The film might hint more heavily than the book that Snape is Dumbledore’s man, but I don’t think it’s completely obvious either. Harry believes at the end of the film that Snape betrayed Dumbledore. Harry decides to trust him on the tower, because he trusts Dumbledore, but by the end Harry feels betrayed to. He yells at Snape: “He trusted you!” Now I’m forgetting – Harry yells “Fight back you coward!” in all the trailers, but is it in the film? I thought it was, but since I can’t exactly remember, it might have been cut. Snape’s “It’s over” was cut, so I don’t know – maybe I’m imagining I heard it.
Maybe the Burrow might be repaired? (I thought this attack would be a good idea, but it looked silly in the film.) Bill has been cast, but I don’t know if his wedding will be in DH. I don’t like the idea of Kreacher being the one dying. Is this confirmed?