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To all of you who think Snape is a hero:
You have obviously never suffered under a teacher who made your life a living hell and who�s unfair treatment cast a shadow over the rest of your life. There is not much to admire in Snape, and his �ultimate sacrifice� was fairly self-serving and does little to redeem him in my eyes.
Is it any wonder that JKR was surprised at his �fan following�? I don�t think that the ignoble and almost inconsequential death Snape suffered at Voldy�s hand was an accident. I think JKR wrote it just right. The death of Wormtail, another traitor, was also written beautifully. Why should either character die �gloriously��by throwing themselves in front of Harry at an opportune moment in front of hundred of witnesses, for example?
The real hero is Harry, who found the courage and strength, even at the tender age of 11, to stand up to Snape�s bullying and to acknowledge what little bravery Snape could muster by naming a son after him.
I agree with Rickie, i mean Snape was only good in the end becuase he loved Lily and although he was brave it doesnt really make up for how he really was. When he went to see Dumbledore all he wanted was for her to be safe. He didnt care about her husband or son and he never did even when Harry was at Hogwarts. It was very nice of Harry to name one son after him even after how mean Snape was to him.
To Leah; Yes, Snape is horrible to Harry because he can see the resemblance to James in him. In OotP, Dumbledore did say that he thought Snape could overcome his feelings towards Harry’s father when he asked Snape to teach Harry Occulmancy, but some wound just run too deep. Just think for a moment if you are Snape, James and Sirius loathed him in school, bullied him in the most hilmiliated ways in front of the school, worst in front of Lily. Then, the girl you ever loved married James…What would you think with Harry standing in frontof you, a miniature of James? The way Snape acted is just so human, it’s just you and me. How could you blame him for that? He’s definitely a hero of mine. Think of what he has done in the years trying to protect Harry, despite his own hatred. How many of the people you know would risk their lives for their enemy? Don’t forget, he killed Dumbledore on his order, knowing he would be misunderstood and appeared as a traitor by everyone, not to mention the risk of his own soul being ripped by the act. What would you call that if it’s not bravery? Harry’s bravery was forced by the circumstances, Snape chose his. It takes more courage.
I love Snape for the way he’s been written.
To add to the Snape debate, I think that the reason I enjoy the character is because of his moral complexity. JKR has presented an entirely unique characterisation to her readership – showing that just because you are unlikeable, anti-social and vindictive, doesn’t mean you’re necessarily “evil”!
One of the main themes about this series is the choices the characters make, not their inherant goodness or badness. Snape’s choices are ultimately proved to be for the good. It does not excuse his behaviour, but it places it in a context of his intentions.
A lot of her characters have flaws (Harry’s anger, Dumbledore’s obsessive secrecy, Ron’s inadequacy etc.), but they rise above their flaws – that is their triumph.
Perhaps she also shows us two differing responses to bullying as well. Both Snape and Harry have been victims of that, but they become different people as a result.
Snape becomes a revenger, getting his harmful blows in first, retreating emotionally – one of the reasons he’s so accomplished at Occlumency. Sometimes he says what other people wouldn’t say because it would be too hurtful. (Frankly, Hermione can be “an insufferable no-it-all”. This is the hurt before you’re hurt yourself response.
Harry, however, becomes an avenger – turning his hurt outwards to prevent others suffering the same. The “saving people thing”.
I always quote the moment in Book 5, during Occlumency Lessons, when Snape asks Harry “Who is the fat boy?”, having just seen Dudley’s bullying in Harry’s mind. For one moment they could have reached an understanding, but Snape ultimately retreats. Perhaps his hurt was the greater.
I’m glad Snape proved to be something more complicated than a simple villain, and that he’s one of the many triumphs of JKR’s pen.
I think Snape loves having Harry in detention because he will be able to see Lily’s Eyes. He is certainly the bravest man in the world.
Goff pretty much covers everything, but I’ll just like to add. One of the morals I liked myself from the Harry Potter books, are ‘No one’s perfect.’ All the characters have a flaw, weather it is anger, revenge, or obsession.
Snape on the other hand was bullied for 7 years by the same people. He was laughed at, hurt physically, but most of all, was getting damaged emotionally. He of course was from Slytherin, so the peer-pressure of that house would make him want to talk to death-eaters.
Then, the love of his life married his worse enemy. How would it make you feel if someone you loved for your WHOLE life just walked away and married your worse enemy?
The main point, though, is that he felt remorse, which are one of the things Dumbledore says, is difficult. Snape overcame those obstacles, and at the end, he turned out to be not only courageous, but heroic.
I’ve never understood the fascination that Snape has held for a large number of HP fans, nor the empathy. We see Snape on Harry’s very first day in class bully Harry without mercy. He does his best to embarrass Harry not once but three times! We know he is mean-spirited and cruel though we won’t know why he behaved this way for a very long time.
Yes, making choices is central to the plots and sub-plots of this series. But, we cannot excuse Snape’s choices by looking at his own childhood. Harry’s was even worse.
I think a most revealing exchange about Snape’s character can be found in DH in the memories he leaves for Harry. When he admits to Dumbledore that he did reveal all of the prophecy he heard to Voldemort but begged LV to spare Lily. Dumbledore says something like-you disgust me-(or he should have said that) because basically Snape told Voldemort he could go ahead and kill James and Harry but just spare Lily. How morally deficient!
Then, when Snape agrees to protect Harry, he doesn’t want anyone to know the one good thing in his life that he has agreed to do-against his will. He doesn’t get it.
I think being bitten by a snake was the appropriate death for Snape. Because of Harry’s goodness, he actually did as Snape asked with his dying breath and gave Snape the gift of dying looking into Lily’s eyes.
We’ve read about heroes in this series; Snape was no hero.
One of the reasons Snape (and Harry and Dumbledore and most all of her characters) is that they are extremely layered and complicated. The darker characters, like Snape, are appealing because we are able to see the human side of them – glimpses of, “No – they ARE good..really”. The BRILLIANT thing about JK as a writer is that many of us were really really unsure of what would happen – which way some of the characters would go – good/bad – die/live – until the very end. It is this suspense and character depth that WILL grant these books a permanent place in literary history.
And a does of guilt clearly keeps Snape going for 17 years.
Not to mention that Allan Rickman is extremely brilliant as this character! I hope the last two screenplays really allow him to portray all of the parts in the book (especially since we now know that Snape IS so very key)…. I for one would thrilled to see him acknowledged professionally (ocsar, golden globe, etc) for this role…
Snape is absolutely a hero. In fact, he is my favorite character in the entire series. I LOVE the way that JK wrote him. He is an extremely complex individual. Think about what he did for a second. So he turns out to be one of the good guys in the end, despite the fact that everyone on his side hated his guts. Even before he killed Dumbledore, many (if not most) people on the good side didn’t like him. And he did it all because of love. No, he was definitely not a villain. His character is beyond redeemed.
I think that snape was truly good. He was never on the dark side, but I do think lily was why. I really do think he cared for harry, yet he disliked how much he was like james.
This site has said from HBP we find that Snape has lied to the death eaters: Harry has no extraordinary magical talent, relying on friends and luck to get him out of tight corners. He is mediocre to the last degree… Why do that, why risk it?
Everything that Snape ever did, while seeming downright evil, was for Harry. After reading HBP, I wondered where JKR was going to take the character of Snape. While I agree that Snapes hatred for Harry had a lot to do with being bullied by Padfoot and Prongs, it isn’t everything.
If anyone has read recent JKR interviews, they would know that patronus mutates through love (often their happy thought). Snapes was a doe, but i don’t think it had much to do with lily (some perhaps). He loved Harry so much that his happy thought was Harry.
I had a lot of teachers in my day that were downright evil, or so i thought. Then a year or so ago, I meet up with a couple of them and have dinner. They only acted that way because they could see more potential in me.
Snape was mean to harry because he could see more potential in harry. He wasn’t lying to bellatrix and narcissa; he was telling them, in his opinion, what harry was.
Snape saved harry from the bucking broomstick (SS), made sure he made it safe to hogwarts in CoS, attempted rescue in PoA (gets stunned), tries to keep him out of trouble in GoF (only tries because there is a known traitor), teaches harry occulmancy (until harry discovers secret), tells death eaters his opinion (which is false) and possibly rips soul to ensure harry keeps fighting. In the last book, he wants to find harry to tell him the truth about his scar. His dying moments he spills, literally, the fact that he loved lily, harry was a horcrux and that he had grown to love harry.
He’s human and no human can bear humiliation or the pain that he had to. At the beginning harry represented every humiliation, every pain that he had to endure or at least most of it. But he overcame his flaws, trying to push harry farther, make harry a better wizard.
Sometimes, as Dumbledore puts it, the sorting is too soon. Snape never had to save Harry, not once. And Snape never had to save his own skin, but he died so that harry could live and beat Voldy. That is why Snape is a hero, a great wizard.
The complexity of Snape’s character is one of the things that make HP books above any “books for children”. He found in himself the ability to love and to show great courage, while raised with little love by his parents, and surrounded by peers, the Slytherins, that valued selfish behaviors.
BUT he also was too happy to bully students that were too young and scared to handle it, such as Neville who became very bad at potion making because of him – the opposite of what a teacher should be doing. There was no excuse such as “he looked so much like James” for the way he was acting toward Neville. As a teacher and an adult, he had authority over students and he used it wrongly many times, in a very cowardly way.
YET he sacrificed his life and the esteem of the fellow teachers when he obeyed Dumbledore and became a spy, and was considered a murderer, ultimately to defeat Voldemort.
Harry chose eventually to see only the best in him – just like Dumbledore was doing (always ready for giving second chances to people) and just like his mother would have done, and even considered him a role model for his children…
Snape was a misguided, very damaged human being who never really knew love from a male figure; just rejection. His father rejected him, and most of the guys at Hogwarts rejected him. You find that where he was accepted (i.e., as a Death Eater and by Lily) that he was fully loyal. The irony in that is his own behavior (Death Eater) brought about the death of his only love (Lily) so at the end of the day, everything that he had felt accepted and loved by was gone…one canceled out the other. When Lily died, he was remorseful (he could love so he could feel remorse); so much so that he was a tragic hero. He was going to do whatever he could to redeem himself to himself and try to make up for what he had done. So, he cut himself off from all emotion..finding that to be the better (less complicated) way to live. That is what made him such a perfect Occulamens and double agent. He felt nothing, he had shut out his mind to his heart and was essentially a cold stone. I also think Snape knew that his redemption would always end in death. So to continue forward with the plan knowing he more than likely could die, makes him brave (just like Harry was willing to sacrifice himself in DH).
Although I believe he was dedicated to helping Lily’s only child, I don’t think Snape really knew how difficult that would be until he actually saw Harry…the face of a “man” who had rejected him and stolen his only love. To Snape, Harry was James and if it weren’t for Harry’s eyes; Snape may well have never tried as hard as he did. In death, Snape wanted to see “Lily’s” eyes; almost as if that is what he was to be rewarded for…and to show remorse at the moment of death. I believe he joined James, Lily and everyone else on the “Other side” and that his death was a better adventure for him.
Snape is my favourite character in the Harry Potter books, and i’ve always said that Severus Snape was good. He was no villian, and was certainly not doing what was best for himself! Everything he did was because of the love to Lily. And no, we can’t deny he was evil to Harry, but how would you react when you met the son of your worst enemy? JKR made Snape act as a human. After everything James did to Snape (and snape did to James), did you think Snape would treat Harry as any other student? Of course not. I’m not saying that what snape did was right. But he was acting like a human being. And we can’t blame him for that, since we all would do the same if it was us. That he sold the Potters to Voldemort was a big mistake – something he had to regret for his whole life. I know that what he did was terrible – not caring if James and harry died – as long as Lily was alive – but again; James and Snape were enemies. Enemies for life.
And what made Snape become the one he finally became?
His father was terrible, and so was most of the persons at Hogwarts. Again; that’s not an excuse, but a big part of the explanation. Just like Emma wrote before me; Snapa was a damaged human being.
But still, after the terrible childhood, he still had one thing that made him good: he could love (just like harry). He could love, and it was because of his love to Lily he never joined Voldemort; but helped Dumbledore – and Harry, and put himself in a great danger.
Snape was a real Hero, no matter what you think. He was a hero.
And that Harry and Ginny named one of their children to Severus was a perfect way to honour Snape. Albus and Severus, the greatest wizard and the breavest wizard in the world.
Severus Snape was a true Hero.
I don’t know what Harry was smoking when he said Snape was the bravest man he ever knew. Snape was a cowardly, grudge-holding flip-flopper who dealt in secrets and never told anyone the whole story. Even Harry, after that brief dip in Snape’s memories, doesn’t know everything about him. Snape changed sides constantly, so not even Dumbledore could know if Snape was good or not. The only reason he turned to Dumbledore’s side was because the woman he loved died. And I don’t think Snape’s “sacrificial” death was in any way sacrificial. Snape’s denoument was just another by-product of the attempted triumph of Lord Voldemort.
I find it interesting how many people idolize Snape. He was a nasty piece of work, cruel, malicious, sadistic. OK, he came by this logically, but “it’s our choices that define us”, and he chose very badly early on and struggled only afterward to redeem himself. I hesitate to call him “hero” because that word has a lot of associations now that don’t apply. He did some heroic stuff, but his motivations were suspect.
What he was, though, is a genius. He probably could have been as powerful as Dumbledore or Voldemort given the same opportunities and motivations. As a wizard, he is definitely in the top three with them (of those we know about) (and greater in magical ability than Harry by far!)
I think his “love” for Lily was a combination of things, and actual love only a small part of the mix. He desired her, he appreciated her kindness and affection, but he really was more obsessed with “owning” her than truly loving her. (Love of the purest kind would accept, painfully, rejection and rejoice that the beloved had happiness even with somebody else. No rejoicing here, only spite.)
He was brave. Once he determined that he needed to stop Voldemort and aligned himself with Dumbledore, he had to lead a truly horrible double life, an excruciating balance, constantly keeping Voldemort from figuring it out even when Voldemort began to kind of wonder…
But everything he did FOR Harry had to do with Dumbledore’s orders and Snape’s awareness that as much as he despised Harry, still Harry was the One prophesied to have a chance of defeating Voldemort. Nothing said he had to be nice to Harry — he just needed to keep him alive, if possible, to live out the prophesy. So he did what he wanted TO Harry, and it was not to toughen him up or help in any way, at least most of the time. He enjoyed making people squirm. A lot of really intelligent people do that — skewer you with words.
I think Snape is one of the best written characters in the series, but he’s not someone I would ever want to meet. (Alan Rickman, now, that’s different!) Snape CHOSE to not rise above his torments of childhood, as Harry managed to do. He sunk into being as big a bully as Dudley, only, being so much more intelligent and powerful, he was much much better at it. In contemporary American culture, he’d be something like a high ranking Mafia “made man”. I wouldn’t want to meet them, either. Regardless of any altruistic gestures they may make or churches they may support…
In Rowling’s universe, there is no pure evil. Even Voldemort, who comes the closest, COULD have made other choices and behaved differently. But he was a sociopath, and like real-life sociopaths, he pushed himself far beyond redemption.
Snape was just a nasty man. He had some tendencies toward evil, and he employed cruelty and other “evil” behaviors, but he also had the capacity for doing right. I wouldn’t call it “goodness” so much as a righteous morality, and a belligerant determination to do what he agreed to do for Dumbledore, literally “no matter what”. Doe this equate to “hero”? I’m not so sure.
Snape was cool but no denying he was powerful as well. If you were to list the power of all the wizards in harry potter the top 5 or so would be like this:
1. Dumbledore
2. Voldemort
3. Kingsley Shacklebolt (this guy kix butt)
4. Snape
5. Bellatrix
Snape, whether heel or hero, was one heck of a wizard, inventing awesome spells, mastering the whole mind reading thing, and just the fact that he was such a good double/triple agent. he was darn good at magic.
the world isn’t split up between good and death eaters.
snape is neither.
One of the things that has always perplexed and disturbed me was how cruel James was to Snape, and how Lilly could have married such a horrible person. After Snape’s worst memory was first revealed, I had hoped JKR would redeem James somehow. I had hoped, “maybe Snape’s memory was highly subjective and not how the incident trully occurred.” But at the end of it all I realize that none of the characters is perfectly good or completely evil. That’s why the characters are so well-created and so real. Everybody has flaws, everybody can learn from their mistakes and wrong-doings to become better people. This is why I know Snape is a true hero. Just as James Potter grew up to be a respectable person, Snape learned from his mistakes and did extrordinary things to redeem his evil deeds. Snape, however, still had a lot to work on in order to grow emotionally before his untimley end. Though his most heroic acts were done out of love and devotion (to Lily, to Dumbledore, to Harry), his most cowardly behaviors were, to me, coming from a part of Snape that was still a tortured child. He had never learned to deal with emotional pain and inflicted it in order to shield himself from being hurt by those he loved and respected. Also, having lost the love of his life, he refused to alow himself to show any kind of love again. These are the reasons why he was so cold and hard to the students he most admired. He was afraid that if he trully nurtured them, that they would turn around and abandon him as Lily had done. He probably called Lilly a mudblood because he could not deal with losing face in front of her, and struck her before she could strike him.
I find it extremely tragic and endearing that Snape was so devoted to Dumbledore and his cause that he sacrificed his own life. Dumbledore knew that he (Snape) was extremely vulnerable to death at the hands of Voldemort as the supposed slayer of the Elder Wand’s master. This disturbs me a bit that Dumbledore was willing to sacrifice Snape for the greater good. I’m sure Snape knew this too and fought in his heart, just as Harry did, whether or not to follow Dumbledore’s orders.
On another note, didn’t Snape’s unbreakable promise to Narcissa magically bind him to the task of killing Dumbledore? He promised to carry out the deed if Draco could not do it. Snape was sympathetic (even empathetic) to Narcissa and could identify with wanting to protect a loved-one from the wrath of Voldemort. He was doubly bound to the task then, for love (Narcissa’s love for her son) and for devotion (to Dumbledore).
snape was cruel because he did bully harry and neville. but would the death eaters not have been a bit suspicious if snape was openly kind to harry and neville, whose parents had been prominant members of the order? i dont think snape was a hero but i also dont think he was a villian.
Neither a heel, nor a hero: Snape is the perfect anti-hero.
Till the last moments of his life, Snape proved his love for Lily Potter by helping her son Harry. and I think after all these years, after what Harry had felt toward Snape, Harry himself considered Snape as a hero and named his son after him and Dumbledore (Albus Severus). so if Harry thinks that Snape is a hero what else can we say?
Of course Snape is going to treat Harry a little worse than he treats the rest of the non-Slytherins, but have any of you ever fallen deeply in love with someone and stayed that way for years and years, and then one day you mess up and it’s gone? Snape never got over the fact that he didn’t get Lily, and of course he’s going to dislike Harry for being the offspring of James Potter, Snape’s rival, and Lily Evans, his true love. So what if Snape is (was) only protecting Harry because he had Lily’s eyes and was Lily’s child and she would have wanted him to? It would, yes, be much more noble if he were protecting Harry because Harry is the Messiah or whatever, but he’s only human. I think Snape is one of the best characters in the book, not because I like him but because he’s very three dimensional and complex.
I think snape was a hero, as much a hero as humanly possible, true he was not the best person in the world, when he was a death eater, but he definitely becomes a better person in the end, stronger than even Dumbledore in character, he is willing to expose himself as an ex-death eater to the ministry to convince them that voldy has returned… while Dumbledore hides the fact that he was ever friends with Grindelwald, I think he never wants to admit the fact that he is protecting harry because he cares for him, yet his horror at what he must tell harry tells a different story, once he has accepted that what he must now do is not for Lily Potter (interestingly he says Lily Potter not Lily Evans) but for a cause a higher cause than his love, if it were just a selfish reason, he wouldnt have risked trying to protect Lupin (who was a marauder) protect the students at Hogwarts, I mean after all detention with Hagrid is fun… wouldnt have transferred the sword to Harry in such a beautiful way, but by the time he realized all this it was too late, he had to keep his cover till the very end, and no one got to know his softer side, personally loved the way all the professors attacked him, he never hits back, although he is extremely capable of it… is this not heroic, he has to come to terms with the fact that he is not a good person and does everything, is led on by Dumbledore, but still remains honorable and does his duty, that is heroic… besides I actually liked the way he treated Hermione (aside from that awful teeth comment) he is always trying to tell her to go beyond the books and be more innovative in his usual “charming” way, throughout HBP hermione keeps saying its not part of the book instructions, she cant seem to think that anything other than whats written in a book would be better… Snape on the other hand was inventing and modifying officially accepted methods of doing things…
I have been re-reading the series and found something really annoyed me.
In PoA, Snape was beyond reasons when he met Sirius and Lupin and the trio in the shrieking Shack. He believed, at that time, Sirius was the reason why Lily was dead. He sure wanted revenge. “Give me a reason and I swear I will do it.” In retropsect, his actions there were all understandable.
However, in HBP, Spinner’s End (brilliantly named), Wormtail was staying with him. He would have known by then that it was Wormtail who has betrayed the Potters. How could he possibly let Wormtail lived and not trying all his might to get him killed? I wonder.
Despite this, Snape is,and remains my fovourite in the series. He’s braver by far than Harry, even Dumbledore. And probably suffered most out of all people. I keep remembering his expression when he had to kill Dumbledore; “Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face.” “Severus….please.” Can’t begin to imagine what he was feeling at that moment. My heart ached for him.
Snape is by far the bravest man ever! Regardless of his irritating behaviour towards Harry, his sacrifices seem to have covered it all up. Not a lot of people have the courage to do what he did. To lie to the darkest and most powerful wizard of all time, risking your life for a loved one that doesnt even exist anymore and to put his life at stake on someones orders several times. What Severus Tobias Snape did, no one by far has dared to do so. Dumbledore has said it himself, he would never give this job to anyone but Snape. He had to conceal Dumbledores grand plans while spending most of his valuable time with Voldy. I think his character really needs an applause! If Harry himself agrees that Snape is undoubtedly the bravest man ever, why do other people have a problem with that? For everything Severus Snape has done, hats off to him! He will always be remembered…
Hey, just because I said I like Severus Snape doesn’t mean I have to worship him!
He’s an interesting character, but he’s not my fave. Heck, I don’t think I have a fave!
After all those years of anger and humiliation with Snape, I wonder how Harry ever managed to name his son after him. It’s not that I don’t like the idea, Snape at least deserved some credit after all he did, but it’s just kind of weird how Harry hated Snape so much and then he names his son after him. It’s an odd kind of long-standing tribute to give your worst-favorite teacher.
All I can say is Snape gained some love for Harry. At first, I believe Snape despised Harry for being like James, but as Snape grew to know Harry better through the years, Lily started to shine through and Snape was able to see past Harry’s appearances to see the unique person underneath. If Snape had truly only been taking care of Harry because of a promise, he would have felt no need to justify his actions to Harry. Snape wanted Harry to see that he was a good person and felt the need to lay himself bare in his revealing of his deepest thoughts to do so.
SherryBinNH you have hit it just right. Snape was a heel of the first order and I just couldn’t understand Harry naming a child after him. Forgive him, yes, because those who don’t forgive have difficulties of their own, but there was no need to name a child after him!
Snape is human, therefore we are unable to qualify his as “good” or “bad”. He is, most definately, a remarkable character, the ultimate flawed hero. Harry himself finally acknowledged him as an adult, when he tells his son Albus Severus he is named after a hero. I don’t think he was referring to Dumbledore.
Snape was unpleasant to Harry. As any other human being, he carried grudges. But he was also a reformed death eater, someone who has witnessed true evil and watched himself almost completely submerged in it, yet managed to pull himself out and work on the side of good. There is much to say for that. And in the end, it is the outcome that counts. He lived a hard life, putting himself in contact with mortal danger, knowingly villified by everyone, and made the ultimate sacrifice. I wonder which of you Snape-haters would pass the test Snape passed with such flying colours, dignity and humanity.
I think snape is a true hero. yeah, he did make mistakes, but as soon as he knew voldemorts intentions he tried to save his one true love. yes he did say to spare just lily at first, but he also asked dumbledore to hide them all, keep them safe, he said he would do anything for dumbledore to do that. (and we all know how badly james had treated snape.) and even though dumbledore didn’t manage this, snape still decided to help dumbledore and did not just give up.
yes he was harsh on his students but that might have been his teaching methods, or who is to say that he only did that to look the part (he did, after all, look after the students when he was headmaster and only gave out not so harsh punishments). he also on many occasions has saved harry so to speak. in ss/ps he was counter-cursing quirrell. in poa he stood in front of harry when lupin turned into a wearwolf, as well a other things. but in the end he did everything he could to aid harry. and in effect he was living on a knife edge doing so. that makes him a true hero, he gave his life to the greater good. that’s just my opinion though. i wish we got to see him and harry come to a understanding. but it looks like harry got that with the bravest wizard comment. mind you snape is my fave and i cried buckets from the prince’s tale onwards.
All the hype about Snape was just that…hype. He hated Harry and his father…he loved Harry’s mother but was rejected by her too…so where’s the beef? Did his human side try to reconcile his differences with James by protecting Harry? No. I think he feared the wrath of Dumbledore more. Bats can’t see…they navigate by sonar…so did Snape. And by the way, what was all the hullabaloo about his pact with Draco’s mother? Too many questions unanswered that an “encyclopedia” will never fulfill satisfactorily. Disappointed? Yes…and so were many more of you, who find courage enough to admit it.
SherryB and Deb8er, I have a question: What exactly are these flip flops of loyalty you perceive in Snape’s actions during the series? I note that dozens of comments posted here list Snape’s consistent actions of loyalty to Dumbledore’s resistance to the Dark Lord.
It is conceded that Snape, outcast by all but the most extreme Slytherins, joined the Death Eaters as a younger man. Having immediately seen the results of these actions he took effective measures to attempt to correct his error. He continued to do penance thereafter and to work for ‘justice’ if that can be sorted out from ‘revenge/retribution’.
JKR has created a series which revolves about Love and Death. Love and remorse figure highly in this setting. Why does Snape, his remorse and bravery not qualify as a Hero then? Which flip flops or deeds serve to remove Harry’s judgement of him?
Are you as certain that Regulus A. Black cannot be a hero? Regulus became a Death Eater, Regulus was helping to store a Horcrux after doing heaven knows what prior to this for the Death Eaters. His revelation about the wickedness of these actions and his involvement in them caused him to save Kreacher, destroy (order it anyway) a Horcrux, and to die in what may have been an attempt to protect his family from Voldemort. Did Regulus display as much courage and determination as Snape? Are Snape’s similar actions not worthy of Harry’s judgement that Snape is the Bravest man he ever knew?
I dont know its hard to say i wish he had done more.. but at least he didnt really betray Dumbledore i like Snape and i think hes a good good guy after what hes been through.
snape ultimately did what was right. please give him credit. he was always, ultimately, if only underneath, right. credit is due where credit was earned.
“We Slytherins are brave, yes, but not stupid. For instance, given the choice, we will always choose to save our own necks.” – Phineas Nigellus Black [OP, US p495]
Jo stated in (I believe) the webchat that she thought Severus was sort of an antihero, which I do agree with. He had his virtues, but it took a massive tragedy in order to bring them out.
I can see what Albus is saying when he tells Severus “Sometimes I think we sort too soon,” but I also can’t help but think that, while Severus was brave for fighting against Voldemort, he wasn’t so much until Lily was in danger. It was only when something he held dear was in jeopardy that his bravery showed through; only then did he reveal the best of himself. It is indeed only then when he decides to do “anything” for his love. It doesn’t seem, to me anyway, that sorting at any other time, or even not sorting at all, might have changed the outcome of his life. The Sorting Hat takes into consideration which House you can choose to go to. Lily was sorted into Gryffindor first, and yet Severus still ended up in Slytherin – Gryffindor House’s “mortal enemy”. Surly if he truly cared for her, he could have chosen to be sorted into her house.
Ok, so let’s say then that his affection for Lily was not as developed as his desire to follow his preconceived ideals at the time of sorting. He even seemed to look past this ancient rivalry between Gryffindor and Slytherin to stay friends with a Gryffindor Muggle-born girl, but never completely. He still wouldn’t do what she asked of him – he hung out with the wrong crowd, he bullied people using “Dark” magic, and he didn’t stop apparently, even after she told him she didn’t like it and wanted him to. Then, the worst memory of his life, the estrangement of his girl – he calls her what he calls everyone of her birth: M…… um… well, something not very nice to call someone of Muggle parentage, and a word that James refuses to even say as reference or example. Why? To keep up a facade of model Slytherin? To defer his “friends” of suspicions of a potential relationship with a Gryffindor and Muggle-born? (For a literary device? Oh, right, we’re pretending he’s real. Sorry.) He didn’t need to say anything to her, he could have easily just stormed off without a word, and no one would be the wiser to his friendship, and he didn’t have to estrange her. Yet he made that choice, and paid dire consequences for his “ideals.”
That incident changed a lot of minds for a lot of people. Lily, as far as we can tell, never again spoke to Severus after the apology conversation that night. Severus never again uttered that word, and didn’t like to hear it. I highly suspect, also, that this incident also leveled James out a bit, based on his reaction to what she had called him. Remus and Sirius tell Harry that James’ arrogance at some point deflated and that Lily started dating him in seventh year. If he had deflated in seventh year, then it didn’t take Lily very long to get over six years of thinking James was an “arrogant toerag.” However, if this end of fifth year incident leveled him, and after a year of showing her he’d changed his ways, she might have had time to change her mind, or realize that James had made the effort that Severus never seemed to be able to make – that he was willing to change himself to be with her.
Before any fellow “Snape believers,” as Charlie so wonderfully put it on page 9, lynch me, let me assert once again that I never wavered on my belief that Severus was very loyal to Albus. I love Severus (don’t like him very much, though – there’s a difference; and I did try to “save” him…) and my aim is not to trivialize the pain and danger he obviously has put himself through. But what it took before he was finally willing to do anything for the woman he loved seems selfish and childish. You’ve gotta admit that, no matter how much Severus loved Lily, James deserved her more.
Fiona from Hong Kong:
snape couldn’t get revenge on wormtail because killing one of voldemort’s most loyal servants might have blown his cover, don’t you think?
i think snape is a very brave person, but i don’t understand harry naming his kid after him, not after seven years of solid loathing and a full year of believing he had killed dumbledore with a cold heart.
“However, in HBP, Spinner’s End (brilliantly named), Wormtail was staying with him. He would have known by then that it was Wormtail who has betrayed the Potters. How could he possibly let Wormtail lived and not trying all his might to get him killed? I wonder.”
Interesting question, Fiona. I hadn’t thought about it, but I suppose it has to do with Snape being able to control his emotions, or at least disguise them. In that situation he would have to keep his focus on the main goal of destroying Voldemort and keeping his cover intact rather than going for the brief satisfaction of killing Wormtail. Does that make sense.
I think it is hard to categorise Snape as either good or bad. He certainly wasn’t a pleasant person. As someone said he made some bad choices early on. But then he spent over 17 years trying to expiate what he had done. 17 years of hating himself, hating James and then of course hating Harry. Possibly he was very confused about Harry. Wanting to hate him because of James and constantly reminded by Harry’s eyes that he had betrayed the woman he loved. I don’t doubt that Snape loved Lily. That doesn’t mean they would necessarily have been happy together though.
As for James being horrible; well, even Sirius said that James needed to deflate his head a bit! Lily seems to have been the sort of person who really does bring out the best in people. Maybe James realised that if he wanted Lily he had to work for it. No one is perfect. And let’s face it, with Voldemort rising to power and Snape blatantly hanging out with potential Deatheaters, someone like James was bound to dislike him. Add in the fact that James was already interested in Lily and you have an explosive mix all round. I think one of the great strengths of the whole series is the characterisation and depth of motivation JKR gives to her characters. Look at us; all arguing back and forth about a man who only exists between the pages of seven books, as though he were a real person. That in itself is quite an achievement whatever our differing opinions of Snape.
I loved Snape’s character and was very pleased with myself for guessing correctly about the Snape / Lily connection. The only thing I hated was the way he died. I really hoped for some closure between Harry and himself. Harry now knows the truth and he named his son after him but I would have loved some dialogue between them.
I also found it sad that no portrait of Snape was hanging in the headmasters room on Harrys triumphant return there. For me this would have meant closure.
I loved DH, all except this.
Look Snape faced lot of opposition like in order he was still considered as death eater except Dumbledore. In death eaters he was also not trusted except voldemort. Now these two persons you can not say the friends so he was alone through out his life.His only friend or Love was Lily who married his enemy and got killed because of his own information.
Now he is dealing with Harry who is mini James but still he reminded him Lily through his eyes. So much of emotions he kept in his hart and remember he cried looking at Lily’s letter. So to keep his emotions aside while facing Voldemort’s legleemency is not simple task. We must agree that he was brave person as harry mentioned in last.
I also fell that there must have been some conversation between Harry and Snape.
“Look….at….me” was his last sentence that means he wanted to see those eyes whom he loved for all of his life….So romantic from character like Snape who has been heated by everyone.
Snape tried to lock away his feelings in order to avoid making himself an easy target for other people’s sneering and also in order to avoid being vulnerable for attack. Occlumency requires the suppression of all feelings, and after Voldemort’s rebirth he had to close his mind to him. There is, however, one moment in which he cannot do it. In HBP, there is the moment when Snape doesn’t manage to uphold the legilimency spell, but instead becomes so charged with emotions that Harry can break into his mind. I re-read it because I thought that there must have been some connection with Lily, and indeed there is: Snape’s magical abilities do not do the trick here because he sees Harry being confronted with Dementors. There is nothing in HBP to explain, but of course we know that when Harry saw the Dementors in PoA, he heard his mother pleading for his life. I believe his shaking and turning white was not so much due to the fact that Harry saw some of his childhood memories, but that he witnessed the last moments of his beloved Lily’s life. Can you imagine what Snape must have felt at that moment? It must have been very hard for him, especially since he didn’t want Harry to find out any of this because he still expected him to be very much like James. When he asks Dumbledore not to reveal his protection of Harry to anyone, he says, “not Potter’s son”. And to be fair, Harry turned out to be very much like James when Snape taught him at Hogwarts. To be sure, Harry didn’t torture others for fun, but he was easily irritable, tends to have a cocky attitude and get very hot-headed. He didn’t show much respect for Snape and he permanently broke the rules. How frustrating must it be to try and protect Harry from Sirius, to even have the school surrounded by Dementors, and then what does this kid do? Try to take on Sirius on his own – after all, Harry (like everybody else) didn’t know that Sirius wasn’t a dangerous criminal when he decided to take him on, rendering everybody else’s attempts at protecting him quite pointless. If you think about this, that sort of behaviour would make one mad indeed, and it is a very James-like and rather negative character trait in Harry.
Just one little snag with Snape…. He entered into the unbreakable vow with Narcissa BEFORE Dumbledore became injured by Gaunt’s ring and asked Snape to do the deed himself.
Since Snape has been headmaster of Hogwarts he should have a painting in the headmastersroom, so Harry could still have that closing conversation.
SherryBinNH: I agree with you. No matter what Snape did, he was so nasty and a bully until the very end. And remember, he only did it for Lily. He never liked Harry. Even so, though, I like mysterious people, and he was a great character. Not a hero, though.
To Elizabeth,
Well yes, Snape may have to hide his feelings towards Wormtail in order to stay undercover. But don’t you think, as clever as Snape is, he sure could find a way to kill Wormtail without Voldemort suspecting him? After all, Voldemort only cares about himself and he has no feeling or trust for Wormtail. I doubt he would care if Wormtail died if Snape could provide a reasonable excuse for the action.
Snape hated Sirius for how he treated him in school as well as “betraying” the Potters. Same applied to Wormtail. Pettigrew was in James’ gang and bullied Snape for fun, except maybe Lupin. In fact, I thought snape would despise Wormtail more for being just a tag-along and untalented. (Brilliant people has very little tolerance towards untalented ones.) I just can’t see the logic in Snape’s action in this.
I also found it interesting that Snape did not do anything to Wormtail when he was forced to stay with him at the beginning of HBP…(I agree with the points made about maintaining his undercover status…brilliant way for Voldy to test Snape by placing Wormtail with him) however since POA Snape had thought Sirius was the betrayer and he did not “kill” him either although clearly had the opportunity. Maybe this is another indication pointing out the fact that he has changed through the series.
Another point that seems consistent with this idea is the difficulty Snape has with Dumbledore’s request to have Snape kill him and his concern for his soul…does this suggest that as a death eater Snape never did anything that could have jeopardized his soul?
No doubt in my mind he is a great hero…his journey was far greater…his choices were much more difficult to make than I could have imagined.
I have always maintained that Snape was good.
And as we all have discussed he was working for the good side after all, but were his motivations pure? If Lily had not been killed, Snape would have been more than happy to be a Death Eater and kill Muggle borns and destroy Harry. The dilemma comes when Voldemorts angers Snape so much that his motivations turn from power-seeking and acceptance to vengeance and retribution. He wants Voldemort to be destroyed, not for the noble reason of eradicating evil, but for pure revenge. My morals tell me that even if you do “good” things with wicked motivation, you are not necessarily a hero.
He definitely helped play a part, but I think Dumbledore and Harry could have completed the task without Snape, granted he is a very talented wizard. I think where I get this idea is when Lupin says something like “Dumbledore needed someone to spy on the werewolves, and here I was ready-made”. I think many other wizards could have been capable of playing double-agent, but Snape was ready-made. Snape, the “best Occlumens”, can’t even get into under-age Malfoy’s head when Malfoy is employing Occlumency, so I wouldn’t even dare to believe that he is more powerful than Dumbledore or Voldemort (although I know Occlumency and Legillimency are different). I think his desire to avenge Lily’s death made him all the more capable at his task, as I have also come to believe that a strong motivation helps one do their work better and more effectively.
I also think that Snape is a terrible, terrible teacher who plays favorites and does not encourage a positive learning environment. He is just as bad as those stupid boys who tortured the magic out of Dumbledore’s sister or Marvolo Gaunt who tortured Voldemort’s mother, we do not consider these characters even partially good. So are his seemingly heroic acts, I still maintain that Harry provided more insight to Voldemort’s world than Snape, I think so.
I think when we compare Snape to Harry, he becomes completely without a doubt a heel because we know that is possible to rise above adverse situations and maintain a pure, loving heart. But when we compare him with Voldemort who let adversity overwhelm him and turn him into stone, Snape becomes so tragically heroic, which I a meaning to say, that it is only through the tragedy in his life that he becomes capable of heroic acts.
I love Severus Snape. I was deeply touched when Harry, again the perfect model of righteousness, named his son after Snape, and I think that Snape eventually became Dumbledore’s man through and through.
I think that Snape wasn’t a nice person but he did a nice thing, and he was extra not-nice to harry because of james, who i pesonally don’t think was a nice person in his youth either, but then neither was dumbledore as we now know but people can change. I think he was really mean and in some places evil in the short-run, but very good and nice in the long run! If that makes sense. Thats what i think!
can i ask a question? do you think snape would of been so harsh or have this hatred (that some people feel he has) and joined the death eaters if james and co. had not taunted him from the start, but took him in as a friend or just left him alone?
snape was a hero. period.
what did being a horrible teacher have to do with what he did, risked his life more any other? he saved harrys life on plenty of occasions, at the same time being bad to him, that means he was rough only for his cover.
for those asking why he didnt reveal himself when attacked by the teachers, there are several answers: when he fled, he didnt know about the carrows being captured. he didnt know about harry being there, but felt voldy being summoned. he fled to try and protect the students.
its possible that he couldnt kill wormtail because of his magical hand.